#linux

25 December 2007

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--- Log opened Tue Dec 25 00:00:05 2007
--- Day changed Tue Dec 25 2007
00:00 <****> phogg, yea nvm
00:00 <****> yeah sorry uname -a
00:00 <****> _cHiLe_cOn_cArNe: if you've recompiled your kernel manually it has a good chance of not being useful
00:00 <****> or if the distributor was careless it could also be unhelpful
00:00 <****> sauvin: no
00:00 <****> phogg, sorry stupid moment here :), but lsb-release never heard of it lemme go google :), cat /etc/blah blah wouldve been my second option
00:01 <****> What's lsb?
00:01 <****> sauvin: Linux Standards Base
00:01 <****> Ah.
00:03 <****> Not that LSB is much of a 'standard', but for some things it's very useful.
00:03 <****> FHS is getting close to a standard but still things like /var/lib don't sit well
00:04 <****> fhs?
00:04 <****> zention: /var/lib/ never has any libraries, afaik
00:04 <****> sauvin: Filesystem Hierarchy Standard
00:04 <****> http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
00:04 <****> zention: it
00:04 <****> er
00:04 <****> /var/lib is defined as a place to store data which really is a bit daft as everything is data
00:05 <****> I remember that. Debian seems to adhere to it fairly closely :)
00:05 <****> zention: it's more like a complement uf /usr/lib/ in that it contains subfolders for each program
00:05 <****> zention: should have been called something else, for sure
00:05 <****> data as opposed to executable files
00:05 <****> iirc, both mysql and postgresql put their stuff in /var/lib
00:05 <****> I would be happy with a /var/dat
00:05 <****> zention: same here
00:06 <****> lib makes me think library
00:06 <****> /var/dat, maybe, or even /var/share?
00:06 <****> and I would add a ~/etc for all the dot files
00:06 <****> or a ~/.etc even
00:07 <****> zention, THAT would break a lot of things :(
00:07 <****> i need some explanation in a simple yet detailed way
00:07 <****> yeah but it is possible if you compile config or patch all the packages
00:07 <****> the FHS still specifies /opt, so it's dead to me
00:07 <****> I symlink /opt to /usr/opt
00:07 <****> I don't even know what /opt is supposed to be.
00:07 <****> sauvin: /var/share is not good because the data is usually app-specific and cannot be used by other apps
00:08 <****> On my system, it's EMPTY.
00:08 <****> sauvin: gentoo puts binary packages there.. dunno about other distros
00:08 <****> sauvin: On my system it doesn't exist because I really hate /opt
00:08 <****> opt is for precompiled applications that don't come with the distro
00:08 <****> Then what is /usr/local for?
00:08 <****> why can Linux by default address only at most 4 GB of memory (reduced down to ~3 GB after RAM by other hardware is used, but OK)?
00:08 <****> apps you compile not from distro?
00:08 <****> zention: if you're goint to add a ~/.etc/ take the opportunity not to name it something incomprehensible and say ~/.cfg/
00:08 <****> As for data that's just data, maybe we could create a new hierarchy: /data
00:08 <****> sauvin: it is for things the local admin adds to the system
00:09 <****> sauvin: /usr/local is like /usr but for stuff not installed by the distribution vendor
00:09 <****> phogg: ohh that would be better but then we would have to do /etc as /cfg
00:09 <****> Mmkay... gotta go. Dinner with the folks!
00:09 <****> sauvin: e.g. stuff installed by you, from random .run files, etc.
00:09 <****> sauvin: on freebsd, everything that is not part of the base system goes in /usr/local
00:09 <****> etcettra works for config I suppose
00:09 <****> zention: eventually, but changing that would be hard. At least start on the right foot with new stuff
00:09 <****> kbrooks: because 2^32 is 4,294,967,296, so with a 32 bit address bus, there are about 4 billion distinct addresses.
00:10 <****> oh local is for applications local to the system
00:10 <****> basically, /opt is for stuff that *should* have gone in /usr/local but the author decided he wanted one directory for his files instead of splitting them up like you should
00:11 <****> kbrooks: adding more memory to a 32 bit system involves things like bank selection
00:11 <****> Hello. Each time I log into my web servers terminal, I get this "You have new mail. " message. How do I check this supposed mail? Last time I checked, mail didnt even function at all on my server
00:11 <****> phogg: yes!
00:11 <****> jsnx: drives me nuts
00:11 <****> zylstra555: use mutt or pine. mail is for sending
00:11 <****> zylstra555: type mail
00:11 <****> Triffid_Hunter, what's 32 bit mean?
00:11 <****> zention: /etc/ was originally not just for configuration, just as /usr was originally for something else. The naming thing is a mess.
00:11 <****> zention: typing mail lists a few applications that would work for checking mail
00:12 <****> zylstra555: mail is spooled to a file so you could just append to the file
00:12 <****> zention: but thats not on my computer at the moment...
00:12 <****> phogg: i'm not sure which is better, actually...as packages in opt usually come with a correct dir heirarchy
00:12 <****> is it real to convert from html to jpeg?
00:12 <****> zylstra555: well you could install it - it is small
00:12 <****> phogg: it would be cute to union mount them all into /usr/local
00:12 <****> jsnx: There are distinct advantages to doing it the /usr/local way
00:12 <****> zylstra555: or just read the spool file
00:12 <****> jsnx: yeah, but what a hack !
00:12 <****> phogg: can you explain more?
00:12 <****> zention: And where is that file?
00:12 <****> zylstra555: applications are writing to it
00:13 <****> zylstra555: /var/mail/spool ? locate spool
00:13 <****> jsnx: I can't explain it well, but you can find some good rants on google
00:13 <****> Triffid_Hunter, can you answer my question??
00:13 <****> Gothica_: real what?
00:13 <****> kbrooks: the number of physical wires on the motherboard the cpu uses for telling things which address it wants to read or write
00:13 <****> phogg: as for union mounts, i actually think it's better -- you can look up what's in a package (in opt) but use them all together (through /usr/local)
00:13 <****> kbrooks: ask Wikipedia about 32 bit
00:14 <****> jsnx: it's a nice idea, but maintaining that would be a nightmare
00:14 <****> phogg: yeah, maybe
00:14 <****> jsnx: unless you were very careful to make sure the package manager did it automatically
00:14 <****> phogg: yeah, you're right about that...
00:14 <****> problem is file systems need to be flexible for security and partitioning needs
00:14 <****> phogg: it would have to be part of the package manager
00:15 <****> and they do change depending upon what you are building
00:15 <****> Triffid_Hunter, 32 physical wires?
00:15 <****> phogg: not something i want to do myself :)
00:15 <****> jsnx: but in today's world most often /opt stuff is not installled via a package manager
00:15 <****> kbrooks: look, uhm...
00:15 <****> kbrooks: yep
00:15 <****>/etc/cron.daily/logrotate:
00:15 <****> apache2: Could not reliably determine the server's fully qualified domain name,$

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